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What are the differences between Carvin guitar pickups?

 
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What are the differences between Carvin guitar pickups?
 PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:56 am Reply with quote  
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  Kevio
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This was originally posted by Wickid on the old BBS. Thanks!




BRIDGE


    M22SD = HOT scorcher. Alot of hi-end treble heat. Think Iron Maiden - 2 Minutes to Midnight. Splits pretty well, especially when use the inner coil. Does what it does well (metal). Takes some work to clean it up (volume roll-back, height adjust).

    M22T = A bit less output than M22SD. Cleans up very nice. More "edge" to it than a C22B - but a bit less harmonics/output, but still not lacking.

    C22B = Hotter than older C22T. Sweet harmonics. Hot p/up but still retains some "classic" treble character, and yet has some decent chunkiness, especially in Mahogany guitars. Cleans up well. Works well with AP11s.

    H22T = Medium output, a bit more full than a C22T.

    C22T = Thinner medium output. Very clean/clear classic character.




NECK


    C22N = Very PAF-like. Slash/GNR tones. Sweet Child O'Mine, Velvet Revolver - Fall to pieces, Soul Asylum - Somebody to Shove intro. The bass isnt too deep, and is balanced with some sweetness in the treble.

    C22J = *NEW* neck p/up.
    The C22J seems to have a dual personality. The higher 3 or 4 strings are quite PAF-like, similar to a C22N, but a bit fuller in tone.
    The bottom 2 or 3 strings are very deep, thick, and smooth. (That would be the "J" for "J"azz.)
    Overall its deeper and fuller than a C22N and seemed like a bit more output. It had a similar deep tone that the C22B (in the neck of an alder Bolt) had, but that was lowered quite a bit to match volume, and didnt sound so good on the higher notes.
    Clean, this sounded pretty good with some sparkle yet fullness on the high notes, and depth to the lows.
    However, with higher gain, especially on the Thick-mode of my V3, the lower notes lost some definition. Not really that bad, but not to my taste, but noticeable nonetheless.
    Combined with the bridge p/up, it sounds very good. Again, deep, yet with the high notes ringing thru. Someone at Carvin mentioned it combines better with a C22B in the bridge - adds more mids. I like how it combined with the creamy hi-mid SD CC that is in the Bolt I put this in.

    M22N = Fairly even response. Maybe a bit of low-end emphasis, especially with lowest guitar notes.

    M22V = Bright for a neck p/up. (I find it worked great in my M22SD equipped all maple V220.) A bit thin for some tastes.

    H22N = A bit less output than say a C22N - a bit smoother and clearer than C22N also. I've heard - with the right player/amp settings - some Vai/Satch-like tones coaxed out of it. I feel it splits pretty well, probably the best of any split HB I've tried - kinda AP11-like. Something like a Duncan Jazz (to me).

    C22B = As a neck p/up, can be quite warm. May need height adjustment to get desired output level, as its hot as a bridge p/up. Many people have these dialed way down.

    C22T = As a neck p/up ... warmer and a bit more output than a C22N. Not quite as deep as a C22B in the neck.

    AP11 = Not just a neck p/up but didnt know where to put the single coils. Very full bell-like tone. A bit more output than Str@t p/ups.

    S60N = Fairly even response.

    TBH60 = Single coil size twin blade 'bucker. Output somewhere between an AP11 and full HB. Beefier than a regular single coil, thinner than a true full-size HB.




Carvin has wiring diagrams in several links in the manuals section.
Specifically:



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re: What are the differences between Carvin guitar pickups?
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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Thanks Kev,
I'll try to include some of the other posts in that thread that seemed informative (with several posts copy/paste'd). This was a compilation of contributions by many members (not just myself)...
(It seemed some of that original post, which had some links to manuals, was truncated on the old BBS - oh well.)
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re: What are the differences between Carvin guitar pickups?
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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Info posted by member I Play Um...

Ok! I think it might be good to augment some of the info here by going over some of the pickup sets I like. Wickid already did a fantastic job on the separate pickups so this will be a different angle on the same pickups.

Everybody is always asking what you use since you can choose something other than the stock pickups. So I'll give my impressions of combo's Ive tried. Hopefully this will help those who keep trying to figure out what to order who are already going back and forth with all the other options.

Just like in the last thread on the old page these are my opinions and while some will agree its more than all right if you dont. Also if anyone has other ideas about the combos please feel free to add on and comment.

C-22-N/C-22-B - This is the stock set up for dual humbuckers. This is probably the best stock set of pickups Carvins offered yet.
Really nice mix of modern and PAF type sounds with a strong lead pickup that pinch harmonics just flow out of. There's one thing thats very special about this set. Even though the CT came out long after these pickups its as if the CT was the prototype used to develope the C series. While it is the other way around this is the pickup set most will love in the CT. The set sounds deepest and richest in the CT.

H-22N/C-22-B - Changing out the C-22N for the H-22-N gives you something a little different than the stock set. If you tweak your amp for a lot of highs the H-22-N is a full sounding pickup with a lot of clarity and can almost give you an alternate lead tone thats suitable for sharp rythmns. Than again if you set your amp to roll off some of the highs on the lead pickup it gets a certain darkness and remains full enough to approach a more Gibson like sound.

C-22-T/ C-22-B - I like this one alot. The C-22-T in the neck is slightly fuller and a bit deeper and a little louder than the C-22-N. This gives you that Gibson like tone in the neck that a lot of guys want.

C-22-B/C-22-B - Not for everyone. If you want the most powerfull and darkest sounding neck pickup look no futher. Cleans can get pretty muddy but some like it to get a very deep Jazz tone. One thing I've noticed about this set is when you use the two B's together it gets a very good neck type sound. It does'nt go midrangey when used with each other. For high gain sounds that are very saturated this set works very well. In a high gain situation the highs you'll add to cut through with the neck B sound great on the bridge B. The distortion thickens everything enough to fatten up the extra brightness the bridge pickup will take on. I think high gain is the best application for this combo.

M-22-N/M-22-T - This is really nice if you want pickups that will push your amp and get sounds similar to using two D'Marzio Super Distortions.
Classic Rock, Hard Rock,Old school grind. They will clean up nice but will always have something of an aggressive sound and a bit of edge.

M-22-V/M-22-SD - Want to go over the top? This will do it. The SD is like super charging the M-22-T. Lots of balls. Some call it a flame thrower. You can certainly use the M-22-N with this but the M-22-V gives you the opportunity to retain the basic M sound but with a much cleaner response than the M-22-N. Dont think the V wont sound good with gain it does. It just has more manners.

H-22-N/H-22-T - The standard set in the Holdsworth series. Bright clear chimey and like mentioned before if you roll off some highs the H-22-N gets some nice darkness and the H-22-T remains clear and brilliant.
Another tip for the Fatboy. If your more jazz you may prefer the H's. If your more blues and rock you might want to consider the C series. Putting a C-22-B in the Fatboy gives a fuller fatter lead sound compared to the H-22-T.

AP-11's + C-22-B or M-22-T or M-22-SD
I highly recommend using a bridge humbucker in the various guitars that use AP-11's. To me the bridge position in these guitars always ends up to weak if you use a single coil. The bridge humbucker you choose will depend on the sounds you like best and I would base that de

(truncated on old BBS)
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TBH60 - AP11
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:59 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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Comments provided by member Chris Keller:

Twinblades are sorta like Duncan Cool Rails in sound (IMHO) ... they're great for a more electric overdriven sound, but still Strat like (in a humbucker type of way .... does that make sense?)

Ap11's are very underrated (again, IMHO) if you're going for the classic SRV Strat or blues type tone .. Great bang for the buck, and pretty quiet, too!


More AP11 comments from epistrat:

I don't have a Carvin, but I have an Epiphone Strat with a Carvin pickguard with 3 AP-11s. I recently got a twinblade to put in the bridge position and it helped the tone at the bridge a lot. No more spiky highs, and now it has a rounder, fuller tone. I still like the AP-11s in the neck and middle, tho.


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
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M22
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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Comments from member UVP:

as usual, this well-meaning discussion lacks some qualification as to whether the description is in the clean or distorted mode, not to mention the chassis it sits in.

I've got an M22T in an all-maple neck thru guitar that really lacks a lot of character. Makes a great metal axe and sounds a direct replica of Megadeth from the Youthanasia CD. It has an even response from the bottom to the top...only slightly scooped. Very slightly. It certainly has less treble than the M22SD. It is not as hot, either but that does not mean that it won't produce very desirable overdrive tones.

M22V or M22N?

The neck pickups, played clean, shows the brighter, more clear qualities of the V. The N has what is referred to as a darker tone, reminiscent of a les paul. What does the N sound like? More like a bridge humbucker played clean. More than the V anyways. It makes 9 gauge strings sound like 10s. The V makes strings sound more metallic but more acoustic. Like a brand new set of light bronze.
Played dirty, the N is a much thicker toned pickup and you can really hear the difference in low chords. Playing leads, the N is more jazzy sounding whereas the V lets you play leads that sound closer to the bridge pickup but without the edge you get from the bridge.

I love having a roomful of guitars.


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bolt+ C66 H-H wiring
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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I thought this can be very useful - so I'll post it in this thread dealing with p/ups.

Bolt + / C66 H-H wiring diagram.

NOTE: The p/ups are pictured Bridge then Neck only so not to cross lines - they are actually placed Neck then Bridge for the guitar in that diagram. The switch positions are as depicted in the diagram, top = Neck-most, bottom = bridge selection.
(The diagram is not mine.)


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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V220 2 Vol 1 Tone wiring
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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Another diagram (well, description) I thought might be useful:


V220 2Vol + 1Tone + 2 taps H-H wiring.

I'll have to describe the solder points on the hardware.

Hardware, connections
(Looking down at the back of the guitar.)
    3-way p/up selector
    Code:

    (Lugs facing right)
    x1 = connect to N-Vol.x2
    x2 = connect to Tone.x3
    x3 = connect to B-Vol.x2


    N-Vol
    Code:

    (Lugs facing right)
    x1 = connect to back of pot
    x2 = connect to 3-way.x1
    x3 = connect to N-tap.x2
    back = connect to B-Vol.x3


    B-Vol
    Code:

    (Lugs facing LEFT)
    connect to B-tap.x2   = x1
    connect to 3-way.x3   = x2
    connect to N-Vol.back = x3   = connect to back of pot
    (connect to x3)       = back = connect to back of Tone


    Tone
    Code:

    (Lugs facing LEFT)
    (N/A)                 = x1
    connect to Cap        = x2
    connect to 3-way.x2   = x3   = connect to output jack (hot)
    connect to B-Vol.back = back = connect to Cap + output jack (gnd)
    (connect to x2)       = CAP  = connect to back of pot


    N-tap
    Code:

    x1 = connect to N-p/up.tap
    x2 = connect to N-Vol.x3
    x3 = connect to N-p/up.hot


    B-tap
    Code:

    x1 = connect to B-p/up.tap
    x2 = connect to B-Vol.x1
    x3 = connect to B-p/up.hot




P/ups grounded/shielded to back of N-Vol or ground wire running from N-Vol.back to B-Vol.x3


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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"Classic" DC H-H 2 Vol 2 Tone passive wiring
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:05 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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Another diagram (well, description) I thought might be useful:


"Classic" 2Vol + 2Tone (+ 2 taps + phase) DC model H-H passive wiring.

(MONO output)
This configuration is like the Current DC127 layout where the Volume is closest to the p/up selector and the Tone is closer to the bottom of the guitar, only duplicated for each p/up where the Neck controls are closer to the strings and the Bridge controls are closer to the edge of the guitar.

(Not to confuse things, but my older stereo passive DCs had both Volumes closer to the strings, with the Neck controls closer to the p/up switch and the Bridge controls closer to the bottom. Also, the newer 3-way p/up selector only has 3 connections, so I'm not sure STEREO operation is possible. The older switches had 2 separate hot-lugs for STEREO operation.)

I'll have to describe the solder points on the hardware.
(See Standard p/up wiring diagram for tap/phase sw p/up lead connection details.)

Hardware, connections
(Looking down at the back of the guitar.)
    3-way p/up selector
    Code:

    (Lugs facing up, left to right)
    x1 = connect to N-Vol.x2
    x2 = connect to output jack (hot)
    x3 = connect to B-Vol.x2


    N-Vol (Upper-Left pot)
    Code:

    (Lugs facing down, left to right)
                           = x1 = connect to N-tap switch + N-Cap
                           = x2 = connect to 3-way.x1
    connect to back of pot = x3 = connect to B-Vol.x1
    (connect to x3)        = back = connect to N-Tone.back
    (connect to x1)        = N-Cap  = connect to N-Tone.x2


    N-Tone (Upper-Right pot)
    Code:

    (Lugs facing down, left to right)
                           = x1 = (N/A)
                           = x2 = connect to N-Cap
    connect to back of pot = x3 = connect to B-Tone.x1
    (connect to x3)        = back = connect to B-tap.gnd lug which is connected to the output jack gnd
    (connect to x2)        = N-Cap  = connect to N-Vol.x1


    B-Vol (Lower-Left pot)
    Code:

    (Lugs facing up, left to right)
    connect to back of pot = x1 = connect to N-Vol.x3
                           = x2 = connect to 3-way.x3
                           = x3 = connect to phase switch hot lug + B-Cap
    (connect to x1)        = back
    (connect to x3)        = B-Cap  = connect to B-Tone.x2


    B-Tone (Lower-Right pot)
    Code:

    (Lugs facing up, left to right)
    connect to back of pot = x1 = connect to N-Tone.x3
                           = x2 = connect to B-Cap
                           = x3 = (N/A)
    (connect to x1)        = back
    (connect to x2)        = B-Cap  = connect to B-Vol.x3


    N-tap (see regular wiring diagram)

    B-tap (see regular wiring diagram - coil-A operation, bottom lug connected to phase sw gnd lug.)

    Phase (see regular wiring diagram, typically primarily connected to Bridge p/up, and then passed along to B-tap)



P/ups grounded/shielded to foil shielding which is connected to bridge (with M-bridge).
I think thats all of it.


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bolt 5-way switch
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:06 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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S5 5-way (Bolt) switch configuration.


A bit of information about the 8-lug S5 switch that may help ...

It has 2 separate sides to it, which means it has a bridge + mid + neck + common - all duplicated

Looking at the switch from the back of the guitar - if the switch to the right = bridge, then the connections are:

{Bridge1 + Mid1 + Neck1} - Common1 // Common2 - {Bridge2 + Mid2 + Neck2}



Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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C22B - TBH60 - AP11
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  wickid
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Lost In Da Jungle commented:

I cannot recommend this pickup combo enough for country/jazz/blues pickers....

Ap11 in neck, TBH in middle, C22B with split in Bridge. Very versatile.

1) Ap11 only - Standard Strat sound neck position
2) TBH + AP11 - Adds "Twang" to the TBH.
3) TBH - Love it, chunky and thick with solid response across the spectrum.
4) TBH + C22 - With the C22 split, it has a filtertron kinda sound going on, like a thin Humbucker. With the C22 on full, it gets mellow and full... A BB King kind sound.
5) C22 - Full: Basic Jazzy warm humbucker. Split: Thin, bright, spanky tone reminiscient of the early Tele Bridge pickups, very usable for rockabilly.


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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re: What are the differences between Carvin guitar pickups?
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:27 pm Reply with quote  
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A question was asked - for Carvin HB p/ups what wires are for which coil? This can be good stuff to know.

For the basic full HB, and looking at the diagram info in the manuals section, I believe:
CoilA (top) = Red (start) -> White (end)
CoilB (bottom) = Green (start) -> Black (end)

The TBH60s are different (see the TBH60-specific diagram).
It goes Black (hot) to Red/White (tap(s)) to Green (ground). My experience however is that this may be out of phase with a H/C/M-series HB (I put one in the middle of a Bolt). Others have noticed this.

So (for a TBH60 combined with ?22s) I'd use:
Green = hot,
Red/White = taps - not quite sure for which coils,
(If anyone figures this out, post here or I could edit this post.)
Black = gnd
And if it sounds out of phase, swap the green/black.

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re: What are the differences between Carvin guitar pickups?
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:30 pm Reply with quote  
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Comment from mikeymac:

I've used DiMarzio's, Seymour Duncan's, Bill Lawrence's, Carvin's and the stock pickups in Fenders (MIA and MIM), Gibsons, Epiphone Elitist (USA made by Gibson), and others...

...the verdict? They all have their pluses and minuses, and each of the pickup companies (like BL, SD and DiM) make so many different pickups (output, character, sonic frequencies) that there is NO WAY to generalize that one companies pickups are GREAT and someone elses STINK. Same could be true for ceramic versus alnico (although I've never used a ceramic that I like - I'm not so sure BL L-280's are ceramic...? I have a set of those in one of my Warmoth Strats...).

Different playing styles and music styles require different pickups...then there are those musicians who are not interested in stock, "cliche" tones; they're seeking their own tones...

...so it's dangerous to generalize or compartmentalize on this topic; you really just have to try different pickups with YOUR guitar and amp setup and music style and EARS to see what works best for you.

It does help to identify what kind of tones you're going for - whenever I read pickups reviews (on H-C, for example) I ALWAYS check to see what styles of music is being played with the pickups under review. No sense in me putting Super Blitzo Mega Distortion pickups in my guitar if I'm going for more vintage single coil tones...

I'm looking forward to hearing the Holdsworth pickups in my upcoming CT3M, since I haven't been crazy about C22 pickups (but I do like AP11's); it just makes the point, to each his own.
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H22
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:30 pm Reply with quote  
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Comment from SFW:

I have a set of H22s in my DC127C. I play hard rock to borderline metal. These pickups sound fantastic! I like them so much I just ordered a set for my Les Paul. They are very warm and articulate, with just the right amount of bite. I can get some very Lynchesq tones when soloing.

I'm running the guitar into a Mesa/Boogie Trem-O-Verb. I have chased this tone for 18 years. It is nice to have finally found it! I like a warm round mid in my pups. The H22s have that. I don't need a "flame thrower" with my TOV. I needed balance pickups that were articulate when playing complex chords. I would highly recomend the H22T/N set to anyone.


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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To C22B or M22SD?
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:32 pm Reply with quote  
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Comment from eudaimonia:

As someone who learned the hard way (got a M22SD on my first Carvin but switched it to the C22B), let me add my 2 cents:

The M22SD is fierce, and does metal riffing well. But the C22B is a better pickup. For rhythm playing, it gets a great chugga-chugga chunk, but it's very articulate. For lead playing, it sings better than the M22SD, with a smoother tone. Plus the C22B has better harmonics. The C22B is more versatile, and is usually characterized as having a more classic rock or blues tone. But I'd say it also does metal better than the M22SD.


Last edited by wickid on Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mixing p/ups
 PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:34 pm Reply with quote  
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Here are some helpful links if you are combining Carvin p/ups with others in your guitar.


Carvin Wiring Diagrams
(Lead wire color codes, when combining Carvin p/ups with others. See the above link for Carvin's lead wire colors/function.)

Looking at the Carvin data (from the series/parallel data and HB diagram), it appears the C/H/M22s are wired Red to White from top to bottom of the TOP coil (A), and possibly (for RWRP*) Green to Black from bottom to top of the BOTTOM coil (B).
Or put another way, Red and Green are the hot leads for each coil, and White and Black are the ground leads for each coil.

(*RWRP = Reverse Wind/Reverse Polarity === Hum-cancelling in-phase.)
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